Project-Based Teaching, Technology, and Mid-Career Innovation with Greg Francom

Dr. Greg Francom came to teaching through four degrees, four universities, a lifelong faith community, and a conviction that media and technology are most valuable when they help people learn. Today, as a Clinical Professor in the Department of Technology, Leadership, and Design at Mississippi State University, he is the author of the first ever multi-platform interactive textbook for educational technology.

In this conversation with host Dr. Shannon Harmon, Greg reflects on project-based teaching and what it looks like to keep innovating with technology in the middle of a long career. He shares how project-based learning creates space for students to personalize their own learning, what a mid-career light bulb moment taught him about his relationship with students, and why changing one thing at a time might be the most sustainable innovation strategy there is.

If you are somewhere in the middle of your teaching career and wondering how to keep growing, this conversation is for you.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

If you've been teaching the same thing the same way over the last several years, it's time to experiment with a different way in doing that. And I'm not just saying that. I believe this to be true because things change. You know, society moves forward, it moves faster and faster over time. Technologies change, society changes. Education has to try to keep up. And so if you've been teaching the same lesson over 20 years, it's it's time to really take a hard look at that and say, what can we do differently? And we are no longer teaching the same students that we were teaching 20 years ago either.

Shannon Harmon 0:37

Welcome to Insightful Teaching, the podcast from the Center for Innovation and Teaching Excellence at Mississippi State University. I'm your host, Dr. Shannon Horman, and I'm so glad you're here. Whether you're listening on your drive to campus, between meetings, or maybe while sipping your coffee before class, welcome. Today we're shifting our focus to what sustained innovation looks like over time, particularly in the middle of an academic career. Joining me today is Dr. Greg Francom, a clinical professor in the Department of Technology, Leadership and Design here at Mississippi State. Prior to MSU, Greg served as a professor of e-learning at Northern State University, and his work centers on helping students use technology to create, solve problems, and complete meaningful tasks. Greg, welcome to Insightful Teaching. To get us started, will you tell us a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Sure. I've had, I tell my students anyway, that I've had four different degrees from four different universities, and that's way too much moving around for any one person to do. But my focus in my undergrad has been on multimedia communication technology, media arts studies. It kind of shifted toward how do we help people to learn with technology and media. And that was kind of my different areas. So my my latest was my doctorate at the University of Georgia in learning design and technology. And so that's where my education came from. But I think the reason why the field was interesting to me was because I grew up in Utah as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and teaching is like a big, it's like a really important uh part of that community and culture. Um we talk about Jesus Christ being the teacher, extraordinaire, you know, the best that could be. And so there's a lot of teaching. Even as a young person in that church, you're gonna do a lot of, you're gonna speak in church, you're gonna share, you're gonna have a lesson that you'll do. And so I think that that's where it began. And that's why I wanted to kind of use my knowledge of media and technology and and uh use it to teach rather than just to entertain or to do something else with it. So my may my major areas though through those degrees has been on improving teaching, uh, using technology and teaching, using media for teaching, all those things.

Shannon Harmon 2:50

Yeah. And I think, you know, what you just said is so true. Um many of us who teach are just sort of those natural teachers. Um, it's interesting that you said, you know, this about media and design and to use it to teach others about it rather than just sharing it and expressing it in a um entertainment way. Um, so you saw the naturalness of your uh your teaching abilities probably early on um in your life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:13

Yeah. And the the degrees I got had options. You could use media to do a variety of things, entertain, um, persuade people to do things. But I've I always felt like helping people to learn something new and grow would be a better use of that.

Shannon Harmon 3:27

And that's why you're here, Greg, is to share with us and our listeners um really about designing learning experiences that endure. Um, and and you have worked a lot in project-based learning. Can you share for our listeners who may not know what project-based learning is, can you share a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Project-based learning is is all about um providing your students with an activity or something to do that allows them to show their what they've learned about a topic or concept. You know, it provides them with something they can create, a useful artifact of some kind that they can make that shows their learning. And, you know, when we talk about nine elements of project-based learning, that's what we're talking about is these different elements that you can combine and think about as a teacher to put into that experience that you give your students.

Shannon Harmon 4:16

Yeah. And I used a lot of project-based learning too, as a former um teacher of future teachers, uh, elementary editors uh specifically. Um, that's actually the work that they found to be um the most uh helpful in their future um work as classroom teachers. So t when you are doing project-based learning with students, um, how are how do they respond?

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Uh generally it's a better experience than like your lecture, you know, or your presentation to the class. They generally want to be hands-on anyway. And so it it kind of comes naturally, I think, to a lot of the students that they like to do some things that relate to what they've been learning. So um, you know, I try to give them opportunities to apply the things that they read in the textbook for that day or for that week or whatever amount of time we're doing the project on.

Shannon Harmon 5:03

Yeah. And again, that active learning, right? Getting them engaged and involved in their own learning.

SPEAKER_03 5:08

Yeah, and I think that's what students today have come to expect a little bit more active involvement in their in the experience of teaching and learning at the university.

Shannon Harmon 5:15

Yeah. Do you think you started teaching that way, Greg? Or is that something that evolved for you every time?

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Um, it evolved for me over time, I would say, but probably earlier than I think it does for a lot of people, just because of my upbringing and interest in teaching. Um So for me, coming out of uh my doctorate program and when I first started teaching full-time at a university, it was pretty natural by then to uh think about ways that students can get more actively involved and doing things that show their learning.

Shannon Harmon 5:44

Yeah. What do you do, or what would you suggest uh for someone who has students who may not want to opt in to active learning?

SPEAKER_03 5:53

So that is a challenge. There are students out there who um for whatever reason, they kind of hope that class will be a quiet experience where they're sitting there, you know, and just listening and and doing things. And that does happen sometimes. Um, but I think sometimes you just have to to keep an eye out, see what students are in your classroom, who's who's involved, who's not, and then talk to them, you know, invite them to become involved, invite them to take a specific role within the structure of whatever project it is, or invite them to do a specific thing. You might have to give them a little more specific instructions on how to get involved.

Shannon Harmon 6:28

Yeah, and I think project-based learning allows us to do that. That protocol to get them to opt in in different ways, I think is is a great way uh to get those reluctant or hesitant learners. Um, if they have a protocol, kind of know what the expectations are, um, they're more likely to opt in.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Yeah, and that's why we talk about different elements of project-based learning and how we can provide that structure.

Shannon Harmon 6:48

Yeah, absolutely. And also what you talked about too, Greg, is is building that rapport with each individual student. Uh, because you work with a variety of majors. So the students in your class could be majoring in elementary ed, but also other things like instructional design, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:02

That's right. Yeah, we even have a new program, learning and user experience design. Um so some of my students I just have for one class and that's it. Other students I'll have for several classes uh back to back.

Shannon Harmon 7:15

But you probably find that different majors, uh different clumps of students might opt in differently. Like I can only imagine. I'm sure your elementary editors are like, yeah, we'll do whatever you ask, Dr. Frankham. Um but you might have other students that, you know, are a little bit more hesitant. Like you said, maybe because of what their major is.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Sure. Um we have in our department, we have that new program I mentioned, and we have IT services, which tends to be kind of computer nerdy type things.

Shannon Harmon 7:38

Yeah, behind the scenes, right?

SPEAKER_03 7:40

And you know, those guys are kind of used to being behind the scenes, like you said. They they, you know, they're usually used to it being quiet, but most of them are willing to participate as long as I as long as they understand the value of the activity. And I usually mention these things. It's important to kind of share what are we doing? Why are we doing this? You know, what what is the purpose of this? How does it relate to what you'll be doing in the future as a professional?

Shannon Harmon 8:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 8:03

They generally opt in if that's something that's clear to them.

Shannon Harmon 8:06

Exactly. That's exactly what I was thinking is like now um we uh can help tell our colleagues across campus and beyond this campus that if you are teaching a class and you have students from a variety of majors, it is about doing what you just said, being clear about what the goal is, right? Why are we doing this? What are we doing this for? And then I love what you said, Greg. How do we apply this in the real world?

SPEAKER_03 8:28

Yeah, it helps students to see the value of the activities that they're doing and if they can understand the connection to the future, it's it becomes less of a barrier for them to participate.

Shannon Harmon 8:39

Absolutely. Absolutely. Because oftentimes, you know, we do um have classes that we sit in, probably as all learners, even you and I, if we can go somewhere and sit somewhere and just listen, we might, our minds might drift off a little bit. Um, but when we know that what we're learning, what we're seeing, what we're engaged in, we can then go and apply the next day or in a week. We're probably going to not let our minds drift off too much, right? We're going to be engaged. We're going to be active learners.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Well, you'll have some students that'll drift either way. But yes, I think they're a little more invested if they know that this is uh something that connects to their future.

Shannon Harmon 9:13

Absolutely. I just cannot hit that home hard enough, is that we really need to think about being transparent with our students about how it relates to the work they'll do in the future. And that can be challenging when you have different majors in a classroom. Um, and and so it's just uh something for us to all think about. So thank you for bringing that up. I want to talk a little bit. You wrote a book, Educational Technology for Teachers. It's the first ever multi-platform interactive textbook. Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_03 9:40

Oh, so we it kind of came out of the need to have a good textbook that I thought was good in the educational technology area to help prepare teachers who were going to be teachers in the field in the K-12 areas. And so I looked around at different textbooks that were out there, didn't really find too many that were great. I had some energy back then, felt like I could do more things. Um and uh, you know, it just made sense to me to kind of have something that would really fit what we were trying to do in our classroom. And so started to develop that. But then also there are elements in the book that are not like a normal textbook. You know, it's it's an electronic version of the textbook. There's not a there's not really a print-based version of the textbook at all. So some aspects of it are just like a normal textbook. You'll read through it and enjoy that part, but there's other aspects too. So when I wrote the book, I was thinking of things like what I do for teaching. Like instead of thinking what can I tell my students, I I thought, what experience do they need in order to get this concept so that they learn that skill? And so um it's got videos in it, it's got interactive elements, slideshows, um, things like that that are in the book that they can click on and pull up, and it helps them to understand a concept a little bit better if they're willing to spend some time on that.

Shannon Harmon 10:50

Awesome. What made you think to do that? Just that there wasn't anything available. So uh it supported your own teaching. Like what were the the reasons behind or the motivation for you to do this?

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Uh making little tutorials and videos and things like that is something that I gained through my education, you know, how to do those kinds of things. So for me, it was second nature to think about it's probably better if students do it this way than just read it. Yeah, and so I thought, let's do that. You know, this is a difficult concept. I see students having a hard time with this one. Well, a slideshow might help to improve that if they go through that or whatever it might be. There are skills that the students need to learn in that class with technology tools. Well, I'm not gonna write down, you know, first click on this, then do that. Instead, a nice little video is gonna do the job. It's gonna be a lot better.

Shannon Harmon 11:37

Yeah, absolutely. What I'm hearing you say, something that's just sort of thematic in our conversation, is a lot about your own instructional design. Tell us what does that mean for you? Because that term can sometimes um it might mean to some people just about how I design or my instruction online. Um, but tell us what that what instructional design means for you.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

It's about designing a learning experience, not a lecture to students. You know, it's about having them experience something, not having me share something with them through my voice or slides or whatever else.

SPEAKER_00 12:08

Right.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

So sometimes there's a place, there's obviously always a place for lecture in in the classroom, but I try not to think about what I what can I teach my students today. I try to think instead, what do my students need to do in order to learn this concept or this idea or whatever it is. And another question is what's the best way for the student to learn this? Um the answer might not be me. You know, the answer could be a resource that's out there. The answer could be a software application, the answer could be all kinds of different things. And that doesn't mean that I'm no good as a teacher if I let them learn from something else. I can help them to do that through that other resource. You know, I can be the guide on the side, so to speak, through the resource. But it just means that maybe it maybe the answer isn't me as a teacher sometimes. Sometimes I think it is me, you know. Sometimes I I do a pretty good job presenting things in the right way. But other times there are other resources out there that I can use.

Shannon Harmon 13:03

Yeah, I love that. I actually it you said guide on the side, but I actually call that facilitating their learning. So you're purposefully designing learning experiences that you then facilitate for your students. And to me, that really is rooted in like the constructivist work. Absolutely. Yes. I mean, I I don't know, I'm a big Vygotsky girl. And that's what I mean. We're constructing that. That is what you just described for us. Yeah. Um, and and many people who are in higher ed may not know about those educational theories, that the way we purposefully design classes for active learning, for engagement, it it has roots and foundations in educational theory.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

Yeah, it does. Uh the constructivist idea from Lev Vygotsky, you know, talks about um, well, social constructivism anyway, talks about how we have this zone of proximal develop development where it's kind of like getting out of your comfort zone and and you have to get pushed out of that a little bit. And then that's the point where you can learn from somebody about something. And I think that really works well, not only for our students, but also for us as teachers. Because uh, if we're just sitting in our comfort zone, we're not learning anything new. We get pushed in that zone of proximal development, which is where we can learn something new because our mind is open to it.

Shannon Harmon 14:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:20

And that's important for, yeah, like I said, teachers and students.

Shannon Harmon 14:23

Absolutely. I mean, that's what we were talking about before we started recording the podcast, uh, about our own learning and continuing to be lifelong learners. And and I think you agree with me in saying that if we're not still learning and still trying to learn new things, it's time to go home.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

That's right. Time to say goodbye, right off into the sunset.

Shannon Harmon 14:43

Right. And so you and I also have been doing this for a while, Greg. Uh, and I mean that in a nice way. We're not old, we're just experienced, right? Sure. We have a lot of experience. Yeah. And so, how do you keep doing this in a mid-career? Because it sounds like you're constantly working on your teaching. I know you are. I've seen you at uh Center for Innovation and Teaching Excellence sessions and in programming that we do through our center. I know you're heavily involved with this. What motivates you at this point in your career to continue to opt into your own learning?

SPEAKER_03 15:16

For me, I think over time I've tried to figure out what um has is engaging to my students. You know, I've tried to watch to see what's happening among students while I do whatever thing I do in the classroom, you know, and if I see some things where there's some glazed over eyes and pretty bored looks and so forth, then I think maybe it's time for a little change on that activity, you know. It it might be time for something like that. No teaching method that we use should last for too long. I mean, we should think about how we change our teaching over time to adopt and adapt um to the needs of our students. So I try to pay attention to what it's engaging and what's not, maybe take a few notes on class afterward. Nice. Um I don't always do that, but sometimes I'll write down something like, This probably needs a change for next semester, you know. Or maybe this would be a better way to do it. Um I've also tried to focus over time uh over my career, as I look back, I've tried to focus more on my relationships with my students a little bit better. Yeah. It doesn't come naturally for me to be like open to new people and and just share all about myself with with somebody. I'm kind of a quiet person, but I've focused on that and and shared more about myself, and I think that's had great results with students as well.

Shannon Harmon 16:30

I love that you said that because uh this podcast we've talked about this idea of relational teaching and so and what that means for us. It doesn't always have to be about hugging your students every day. It's how are you relational with them in a way that's appropriate for who you are as a person and as an instructor.

SPEAKER_03 16:47

Yeah, I think when you talk about relational teaching too, you do it like you said, in your unique way. Yeah. You know, you you might have a way of think about how you interact with people who are close to you.

Shannon Harmon 16:56

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

And that's your kind of your way of interacting with people. And so maybe that's something that you could bring a little bit of into the classroom.

Shannon Harmon 17:03

Yeah. And you said it's had a big impact. In what ways have you seen that?

SPEAKER_03 17:07

Oh, just um for me, it it personally it's made my my job more enjoyable just to get to know the students a little bit better and to see them also getting to know me a little bit better. I feel like it's more of a rewarding career when you're in that space, when you're able to do more of that.

Shannon Harmon 17:24

I agree, I agree. I also really loved making those connections with my students. Um when I first started in higher ed, I was a full-time doc student and I've started teaching some methodology classes. And I thought I had to be so um private and separate. I thought Dr. Harmon, Shane and Harmon were two separate things. Um, and so I think that's a good advice for people who maybe are early in their career. But now that they're in a place where we are, it's like, oh, they can see us as people, but also respect us as experts in our field.

SPEAKER_03 17:55

Yeah, you don't have to feel all high and mighty in front of students and pretend that you're this thing when you're actually that.

Shannon Harmon 18:00

Right.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

You it's okay to have a little bit of the messiness of life. Now, obviously, you don't want to be like, you know, just crazy in front of the students and all that, but um it's okay if they know a little bit about you.

Shannon Harmon 18:12

Absolutely. A colleague of mine and I, we were talking just the other day about this, you know, we don't have to be uh, again, our students' best friends, but we can be friendly with them and we can have pleasant interactions, and then they're going to want to opt in to come to class or engage in class. Um be be present, and I think that's important. Uh, we usually learn best from people we like and in environments we like to be in. So I I think that that goes a long way um in a student's journey in in higher ed.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

Yeah, that is a big part of learning. I found that the people that I've learned the most profound lessons from are those that I had good relationships with.

Shannon Harmon 18:47

Absolutely. You also said something else, Greg, that I thought was so important about your own um learning and taking time in this part of your career. And that was about sometimes you just jot down some notes after a lesson. Um, and you're like, I need to change that for next time. I have a a friend who talks a lot about this. He says and gives advice to um professors that you should keep a reflective journal.

SPEAKER_03 19:14

Yeah, I think that's good advice. Um, for each of my classes, I have like a one note um notebook, you know, that I keep this stuff in. And yeah, I plan my class periods that way or my class uh sessions that way, and then I have notes that I can add to that day, and usually I'll copy that over for the next year, and there will be those notes, you know, that I took from last time, and it will say something like, You should probably do a little bit different on this assignment, and here's why, you know, try this instead. Or there's a new tool out that might be kind of cool. You should try that for this type of activity because it seems like it fits it. Sometimes I'll look into the tool and it's it's a dud. It it doesn't work for that particular learning objective or that assignment. But other times I'll look at it and say, Yeah, this will this will definitely improve the experience for my students.

Shannon Harmon 19:59

I love that. I love though you're you're openly saying, I look at something, I thought it might be a good idea, but it's not, or that tool doesn't work here, that technology doesn't work. And that's okay to say that, right? It's okay to say it, but you're taking the chance and the time to explore something. Um, it's huge, which actually might lead you to finding something else that might work.

SPEAKER_03 20:16

Yeah, absolutely. And notes help because you don't always have time right now to check it. I'll see something, for instance, on a blog or in the news, and I'll say, that's something that I really should look into. This is having it has a lot to do with my area, and I could teach using that tool or whatever it is. And then uh when I get the chance to check it out, I can if I've taken notes on it, but I might forget about it if I don't take any note on it.

Shannon Harmon 20:39

One thing I liked to do when I was teaching was to make my content and my methods of my teaching apply to the current context of my learners. And so each semester I'd have different, sort of a different community of learners. Like you just have a different sense with different groups sometimes. And so I would take notes about okay, I'm gonna do, like you said, I might do a Slido, I might do some other kind of polling. But for my new group, it that may not be appropriate. They might want something else. So making those adjustments and having the notes about it were also for me very helpful.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Yeah. Another way that I thought about this same concept too was um a lot of the assignments in class or activities that students do, if they are kind of project-based learning, that gives some leeway for students to be able to make make it their own. Absolutely. Um they can apply it to if you're, let's say, your kinesiology major and you're not planning on teaching, you know, math and science or whatever, but you can apply this to physical education. You know, there's there's with projects that have some leeway, it allows them to kind of personalize their learning a little bit better and make it theirs a little bit more.

Shannon Harmon 21:46

For mid career faculty like us, somewhere in the middle of our of our careers, we've had some experience. Like I said, we're not old, we're experienced. Um what advice would you give to other faculty who are sort of in this mid career phase? To get them to re-energize themselves and to be motivated to evolve their teaching either even further. They're not at the end of their careers yet. There's still time to make new improvements and new innovations. What advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_03 22:14

Yeah, I would share a couple of things. Um, innovation is probably less about me as a teacher, but more about uh the relationship between myself and students and the tools that we use to learn. And so it's kind of a shift of looking at it that way. It's okay too if there's some, you know, even as a mid-career, you're supposed to know. I guess you're supposed to know everything when you graduate with your doctorate, but we know that's not true. But we know we don't have uh all the knowledge out there. So it's okay if there's like a technique or a tool out there that you don't know about and your students do, and they seem like they're just amazing at that thing. You can partner with your students in the process of learning that thing, right? It doesn't have to be this embarrassing thing, like, I don't know what this tool is, I'm not gonna go anywhere near it, I'm afraid of it. Instead, you can say, Who knows about this, you know, or some issue comes up in your classroom and you're like, does anyone know how to fix this real quick so we can move on? It's it's kind of a it can become more of a partnership as your relationship with your students grows and you try to try to do these new things.

Shannon Harmon 23:12

Absolutely. And it makes me think about AI right now, you know, um, and that that's really where I met you was in an AI session. I think that's the beauty of it right now. We're all learning about AI, our students included. Um, and I think what you just said is huge. Let's all tinker and play around with this together as a community of learners.

SPEAKER_03 23:31

Yeah, nobody came out and said that professors must know everything about generative AI before you can talk about it in your classroom. Um, you know, i I think it's important for us to learn what we can about it, but we can do that with our students. We can do that in a variety of different ways.

Shannon Harmon 23:45

I really love that idea of let's all explore this together during a class session rooted in the content of what you're teaching. I think that has uh major implications for future learning um and where we're going.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

Yeah, since I wrote my own textbook, um I can take that and I can upload it to an AI thing and and ask it questions about the textbook, right? You can use yeah, even my students can do this with tools like um Notebook LM from Google, and they can upload it and ask questions about the text, you know, and the and it answers just from the textbook and not from any other general AI information, which is kind of cool because then they can have another way to interact with the information that we learn in class.

Shannon Harmon 24:26

I love that. Another way to interact with the information from class. Not the it's not the genitive AI is not the giving of of answers. It's interacting with the learning in a different way.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

Aaron Powell And the truth is with um all these things, you know, uh teaching and learning is full of fads. You'll have people outside of your field who come in and talk to you about this or that new thing, and we gotta change this to become like that. You know, there's a lot of fads out there. And some people um mean well, but they might not know what they're talking about, but others might know what they're talking about because they have degrees in education or areas that are related to instruction and those kinds of things. And so sometimes you just have to take those lessons that you learn, and and when you're in your mid-career, you kind of say, you know, is this just a fad? What can I take from this though, even if it is? What can I take from this that might improve my learning and what may be not so useful for my field or for my learning, and then go forward from there?

Shannon Harmon 25:21

I love that. I love that. What can I take from this new, this new thing, this new fat?

SPEAKER_03 25:26

So another important thing I think for mid-career faculty is to think about um something that came to me as kind of a light bulb moment, and that is that I can still love my students, and yet they I can be disappointed in their performance in the class.

Shannon Harmon 25:41

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

So before that, I didn't and this might seem like the dumbest thing for anybody else who who already knows this, but for me, it was like I can still show my students that I care about them even if they're not performing well in my class, you know, or and especially if they're not performing well maybe.

Shannon Harmon 26:03

I was worried about how you performed with this, you know, from your perspective, how do you think you felt? Like asking students, checking in with them, you're seeing them, Greg. You're seeing them as learners. They want to be seen. They want to feel like someone hears them and sees them, and that's what you're doing.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

Yeah. And so the light bulb moment for me came when I was just thinking about my career. You know, things were kind of just sailing on, and I kind of took stock of like, how do I really, what do I really think about my students? You know, do I treat them like somebody that I just don't want to spend much time with? You know, or do I actually show that I really care about them as people? And so it's that love part that I took stock of, and that's when the light bulb moment came. Like, I I can love all my students, I can treat them like I do want to be around them. I don't have to act like it's otherwise.

Shannon Harmon 26:54

Yeah. I actually find found in my own teaching when I told them, you know, thanks for being here. This was a fun lesson for me too. When I just said those things, they changed. I changed, you know, I didn't have to bring all of that, oh, I don't want to be here, right? I would I love to stand at the door and greet my students as they walk in. And that would change how I felt. And and through that, sometimes they would say, Oh, Dr. Harman, I was running so late. I'm so sorry. And I was like, it's okay. I'm just glad you're here. And that would change how we both felt, right? Because we come into the classroom or the online setting with so much of our own stuff. And if we just take a minute just to recognize it and say, hey, I I had a rough morning too, but we're here and that's awesome. Um, that just sort of like alleviates all that stuff that we bring into situations as humans. And again, we can then build this community where we all want to be there and be around each other and be together.

SPEAKER_03 27:46

Yeah, it helps improve the idea that uh at least the way I was before, where I was kind of standoffish with students or just kind of you know, didn't really look them in the eyes or didn't really spend um time thinking much about them at all. But I think that's a that was an important light bulb moment for me in my mid-career.

Shannon Harmon 28:04

I love that. And I bet as a result, your student evaluations increased. I bet your engagement from students increased because they saw that in you. I bet they really started to you made that change and then they felt it. And so they probably your your classes probably changed it all. That's awesome. That's so true. That that's so key. And again, again, that doesn't have to be, hey, I love you guys every day. It's just literally about something we do in the way that we move and act and interact in our classroom.

unknown 28:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:33

And for me, it was just how I think of them in my mind. Yeah. You know, and I didn't really have to change as long as I thought about them in this way in my mind, then I would, it would change how I interacted with them.

Shannon Harmon 28:43

Yeah, that's awesome. So I'm wondering what's one new thing you've done this semester or recently that's really changed uh your teaching?

SPEAKER_03 28:53

Well, you've mentioned generative AI before. We've talked about that in class as a group. And so one of the things that I've done is I've got this um AI tool that we can ask questions, right? Anyone can do this really with ChatGPT online, where you can say, Well, we've talked about this concept. Let's ask ChatGPT what it says about this topic, you know. Um, or you've got this assignment that's due. Let's see what Chat GPT gives us and allows us to brainstorm some ideas on. And by the way, this is an appropriate use of generative AI in the classroom. You know, we can have it help us to brainstorm or have it help us to do something that is um not uh a breach of academic intrigu integrity. And by the way, here's some things that we could do with generative AI that we don't want to do because that would be a that would replace our thinking, you know. So I think that some chat uh or some generative AI activities in the classroom that we've uh ran recently that have kind of helped open up the conversation about proper and improper uses of that new technology.

Shannon Harmon 29:55

Yeah, yeah. Talking about the ethics of it while also using it, I think is important um for students to know. So that's your advice for mid-career. So let's give some advice. Uh I love to at the end of each Insightful Teaching Podcast, give advice to anyone walking into their classroom tomorrow. Uh, what's one piece of or a couple of pieces of advice you might give someone? What should they go and do in their next class session?

SPEAKER_03 30:20

Well, I think if you've been teaching the same thing the same way over the last several years, it's time to experiment with a different way in doing that. And I'm not just saying that. I believe this to be true because things change, you know, society moves forward, it moves faster and faster over time, technologies change, society changes, education has to try to keep up. Um, and so if you've been teaching the same lesson over 20 years, it's it's time to to really take a hard look at that and say, what can we do differently? And we are no longer teaching the same students that we were teaching 20 years ago either.

Shannon Harmon 30:55

Exactly. Students have dramatically changed. The way we teach should change as a result of that. I love what you said about education is always trying to catch up. Uh, that's one of the things I learned in my doctor program is that pendulum always swings uh out here for society, and then education is just constantly and it never catches up. As soon as it catches up, the pendulum swings the other way, right? And and in society. And so we're always trying to catch up, which means as uh professors or instructors of higher ed, we need to be changing and evolving.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Absolutely. Yeah, it never catches up, but if we're not if we're not serious about trying to catch up, then we're not really serious about preparing our students for the world that they're gonna be in. This idea of catching up in in order to make that something useful, uh, something that's not overwhelming. Take a few minutes to learn about a new tool and just just do one thing at a time, you know, when you're trying to learn something new. You can't like change everything about what you teach either. I mean, you can't you're not gonna catch up, so that's okay, you know. But you can take one thing this semester or one thing this week or one thing this month, um, as as you have time, and check out that new technology tool, or check out that new teaching technique that you heard about in that session you went to, and see where it would best apply, you know, in your teaching and learning. And I think if you do it more one at a time, then you're gonna be much better off. Um there's a scripture actually in our church that talks about this. It says, by small and simple things are great things brought to pass. And I think that's very true. Like you can, you know, small things just keep moving forward, but make it small steps, baby steps, so to speak, and then great things can be brought to pass over time.

Shannon Harmon 32:36

Yeah, absolutely. That ripple effect, right? I love that. I agree. I that's advice I give um new faculty or future faculty is if you try one thing this semester and you learn how to do that well, you have that one new thing plus another new thing the next semester. So in one academic year, you have two new things. Going into the next year, you can have four. And so just that ripple effect. I love that you brought that up.

SPEAKER_03 32:58

Yeah, I see it kind of as a toolbox too. Like you can add a new wrench to the toolbox or a new new, you know, a new screwdriver or whatever to tool might be. And you have more and more as you go along. And you so you just keep adding, and pretty soon you've got a full toolbox. You can try all kinds of different things.

Shannon Harmon 33:15

I love that. You know, as we're wrapping up this conversation today, I'm I'm really struck by what you just said. Teaching excellence really is about constantly reinventing and evolving. And I think that's so important that we do that so that we can design learning experiences for our students with intention and and just being prepared for them as what you said, Greg, students evolve and change over time. What you shared today reminds us that innovation doesn't have to be loud or exhausting. You know, your quiet demeanor, you can still also build rapport with students. And I love that you shared that. It also can be thoughtful and sustainable and deeply grounded in what we know about how people learn, whether it's project-based learning or constructivist approaches. Um, I actually didn't know you were a fellow constructivist, Greg. So constructivists unite.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Yeah, it's a big deal. It is.

Shannon Harmon 34:05

It is a big deal. Um, and so I just think that with the purposeful use of technology and um instructional design, we can create these experiences that help students make meaning, apply what they know, and build something long-lasting. So thank you so much for your time and helping to remind me of that as well.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Thank you for having me.

Shannon Harmon 34:25

Yeah, it's been nice. Thanks. This episode also speaks directly to mid-career faculty who may be asking themselves what's next for my teaching. And I think the answer we just gave it to you, it's about constantly reflecting and refining and really meeting your students where they are, your current students, not the ones that you had when you first started teaching, but your current ones. At the Center for Innovation and Teaching Excellence, we believe that innovation is not a one-time decision. It's an ongoing process of inquiry, iteration, and care. And importantly, it's work you don't have to do alone. We're all in this together. As you reflect on today's conversation, I invite you to consider this question. What's one element of your teaching that's worth revisiting? Not to overhaul it, but just to refine it. Thank you for joining us on Insightful Teaching. If today's episode resonated with you, please share it with a colleague. Until next time, keep teaching with insightful purpose, keep innovating with an insightful heart, and keep being the reason someone believes they belong here.