Beyond the Classroom: Internships, Experience, and Teaching for What’s Next with Amy Fountain

Some of the most powerful learning happens when students step outside the classroom and into real-world settings. In this episode, host Dr. Shannon Harmon talks with Amy Fountain—faculty member in the Department of Communication, Media, and Theatre, internship coordinator, and member of the College of Arts and Sciences' TEAMS initiative—about how internships and experiential learning shape student success.

Together they explore what students gain from internships that a traditional classroom can't always offer, how faculty can prepare students for these experiences, and why reflection is the key to turning experience into lasting learning. Amy also shares how her work coordinating internships has reshaped her own teaching, and how it connects to the broader conversation about teaching excellence at Mississippi State.

Whether you're a faculty member rethinking how your courses connect to students' futures—or simply curious about learning that extends beyond the classroom—this conversation offers practical insight and a fresh perspective on preparing students for what's next.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I have a lot of students that come in thinking, I haven't done enough to get an internship. And so just like in a classroom assignment, we may scaffold an assignment, we kind of need to scaffold them into internships. That might start with helping them find things that they can do their freshman year or when they first come to campus to start developing their resumes a little bit. It's not an internship, but student organization involvement, community service opportunities, even helping them see that, hey, you did this assignment for my class, but it can go in a portfolio. You know, helping them see that you're more ready than you realize, and pointing them to opportunities that can help them get ready to apply for internships is something that all faculty in any discipline can be doing.

Shannon Harmon 0:51

Welcome to Insightful Teaching, the podcast from the Center for Innovation and Teaching Excellence at Mississippi State University. I'm your host, Dr. Shannon Horman, and I'm so glad you're here. On this podcast, we often focus on what happens inside the classroom. But today, we're expanding the conversation to include learning that happens beyond it. Internships and experiential learning opportunities are some of the most powerful ways students connect what they're learning to real-world context. But these experiences don't exist in isolation. They're deeply connected to how we teach, how we design courses, and how we prepare students for what comes next. Which is why I'm so excited that joining me today is Amy Fountain, a faculty member in the Department of Communication, Media and Theater here at Mississippi State. She also serves as internship coordinator and as part of the College of Arts and Sciences Teams initiative, which is Teaching Excellence and Motivating Success. Today we'll explore how internships fit into the broader landscape of teaching and learning, how faculty can better support students through the experiences, and what it means to design learning that truly extends beyond the classroom. Welcome, Amy. I'm so glad you're here to get us started. Tell us a little bit about your role here at Mississippi State and what kinds of work you do with students.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Thank you, Shannon. I'm so excited to join you today to talk about internships and how that extends our teaching outside of the classroom. I've been in the Department of Communication, Media and Theater since 1999. Awesome. And I teach in the concentration of communication studies. So we have five different concentrations. So our department has students that are studying public relations, some that are studying broadcasting, theater. And so communication and media studies is the concentration that I fall within. But I help students from all five concentrations explore internship opportunities in my role as the internship coordinator. I wear another hat in the department as the coordinator of our introductory level oral communication classes. And so those are our gen ed classes like public speaking and introduction to communication that serve majors all across campus. And so I have the opportunity to teach those first-year freshmen that are coming in, some who know what they want to do with their lives and others who are still trying to figure that out, as well as our upper level students who are going out and exploring internships.

Shannon Harmon 3:23

Wonderful. I love that. Today we're going to talk about some of that, how those intro classes then inform what you do in internship and vice versa. So hold on to that. But first, Amy, you were here in 99 and I graduated in 2000. When did we overlap? I know, I know.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

I'm sure we passed each other in the hall and flash forward, and there'd be a movie clip of that of us seeing each other.

Shannon Harmon 3:46

Because I was in your building. And so that's so neat. Um the connections, I think that's that's something I always like to bring out in this podcast is how Mississippi State um really is a home. Uh, you know, it feels homey and like a just a warm hug sometimes. And so uh because we do all know each other, we are part of this bigger family. Um, and I I think that's really special. So let's first talk about this idea of um the internships, and then we're gonna come back to your teaching and your practice. So let's just define it for our audience. Okay. Um, in case they're sitting out there saying, I know what internships are, but maybe they there is a different actually what they truly mean and look like in practice. So can you explain some of that for us?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Yes, I think that's an important place to start because there actually are a lot of misconceptions about what an internship is or what it should be, what that experience should look like for students. I think a lot of students and even professionals think that an internship is simply outside of the classroom work experience. And that's a piece of it, right? We definitely want our students to practice in the workplace the skills that they're learning in the classroom. That is one component of what an internship should offer. But an internship should also have an educational piece to it. So a student can get a lot of great outside of the classroom experience with a part-time job.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

But we might not consider that an internship if they're not working under the supervision of someone who can provide them with constructive criticism on their work, who's willing to mentor them and close that feedback loop to provide the educational piece of it. So interns can be paid or unpaid. Sometimes they get course credit, sometimes they don't. And there's a lot of sort of nuances and details that go into those decisions that I talk through with students. But I think just on the surface, it's important to say that a student can do shadowing that's passive, and that can be really valuable, but it's not an internship. A student can do a part-time job where they are working and using their skills, but it may not be an internship.

SPEAKER_01 5:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:53

An internship needs to be time limited, it needs to be a little more immersive than shadowing is, and they need to be getting that feedback to provide the educational piece that some part-time jobs may not provide. I love that.

Shannon Harmon 6:07

I think that's so important. When I was walking around McComas the other day coming to talk to you, I saw many boards on the walls about paid or unpaid internship. And so I think that's very interesting that we often sometimes mistake that as like, oh, well, if I'm getting paid, it's just a job. But there's this important component to the feedback. And so I'm assuming that in your internship classes that there are some standards or competencies that both um the person who's offering the internship and the students have to complete. Can you talk a little bit about those? Sure.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

We have some basic checklisty type things that the supervisor needs to be a professional in the field of the student's major or the student's concentration. There are a certain number of hours that the student has to work while they're enrolled in the class. Nice. Um, there are assignments that the student completes for me that again, there's a reflective component. And so that's again, providing the academic piece for the course credit. There are periodic evaluations that the supervisor completes at the midterm, at the final, so that again, we we're holding everybody accountable for meeting those standards. The students are responsible for working with the supervisor and submitting to me before they enroll in the class what the learning outcomes will be from the internship. And we articulate how those align with the concentration in their major. And so the exact learning outcomes may vary a little bit depending on the internship. Again, we have students that are some that are in theater, some that are in public relations, some that are in broadcasting. And so there's going to be a little bit of modification depending on the internship that the student is doing and what their concentration is. Um, but there that there are some also some underpinning and overarching learning outcomes that we want all of the students to get. And those relate to things like professionalism and work ethic and critical thinking that we hope are happening in all of the internships that our students do.

Shannon Harmon 8:06

Yeah, those unique human skills that we need that maybe we learn best on the job, right in action while grappling with the content that we're trying to do as well. I think that's I think that's a huge part of that. I love also what you said about there's this element of accountability. If I have a business and I want to have an intern, what are the things I need to know? I don't just call you up and say, hey, give me an intern. There's a role for me to play as well, right? That's right. Like I have to be um willing to mentor, give feedback, do these. There's like expectations.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Exactly. The the first thing we talk about is are you qualified to provide feedback? So um, you know, there are lots of businesses that would love to have our students come in and do work for them. Right. Um, and so again, sometimes we have a senior level student who has the skills to go in and manage social media for a small business. And they can do that sort of independently and without a real close level of supervision or guidance. Um, and if that's a paid position, that's a great experience for the student and a great service for the employer. But the employer does need to pay them and they would not, we would not count that as an internship. The supervisor needs to be able to demonstrate that they have the expertise in whatever the field is. And again, there's sort of a range within our department, um, just as there would be in any any academic discipline. So, what qualifies the supervisor to make sure that we're connecting the dots between the classroom and the work that the student is doing, that they are going to support the student with whatever resources the student needs to complete the tasks that they're doing. The student should not be displacing a permanent employee. They should be there to support and add to the workplace and whatever tasks are being done. We hope that the student has access to sit in on meetings and participate in whatever the workplace is so that they're getting a real immersive experience. Um there are some remote internships. So those look a little bit different where students are working more independently, but we still want to make sure that they are connected to the organization that they are interning with, that they are getting the feedback that they need and the mentorship that they need. We talk through how they will communicate with the intern, how frequently they will be able to meet with them, what sort of access the student will have to the supervisor, then knowing that the supervisor is going to be providing the feedback in the midterm and at the final point in the semester.

Shannon Harmon 10:42

Yeah. I love what you just brought up about, you know, um, you can employ some of our students to help you run your social media for your new small business. Um, but you know, you have to be able to mentor them. You can't just say, well, I don't know how to do this, so I need cheap labor, I guess. Right. So there are some labor laws around this.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Can you speak a little bit about that? Yes. So the federal government has labor laws that prohibit free labor, right? So we can't just say, oh, I need somebody to do XYZ task for me. I need somebody to produce this podcast. And hey, we have a broadcasting student who can do that. So come do it, and we're not going to pay you and we're just going to call it an internship and everything is fine. Um that's against the law. So the student needs to have an educational component and be getting course credit to provide the documentation that this is mutually beneficial, right? That this is not just using the student as free labor, that the student is getting the course credit on their transcript. Um, so they're benefiting from it in that way. Um, that's one piece of what an unpaid internship might look like. Right. Um, there are some exceptions to this. So if a student is interning for a nonprofit organization, um, then there's a little bit more leeway. A student could conceivably do an unpaid internship that's not for course credit, if it's for a charitable organization, and they may want to do that as volunteer work. Yeah. So that would be a case where the paid, unpaid course credit formula might look a little bit different. But in most cases, a a business that is a for-profit organization needs to pay the intern, andor the student needs to be getting course credit. And it's great if both can happen.

Shannon Harmon 12:35

And it's okay that both can happen, right? I think that's really important. When I when you and I were chatting about this, uh, you were telling me some of the amazing businesses that we may all know that are asking and calling you for our students. Again, I always love to brag on Mississippi State. And not only are we a campus of really like friendly, almost like family, but we also produce amazing workforce-ready students. So you've got some big uh places, we won't name them all, but students are doing internships in places like New York. Yes. Where else?

SPEAKER_00 13:12

Uh, well, lots of big cities. So, you know, students will come in and say, I want to do an internship. And I say, Well, where do you want to be? And where can you afford to live? You know, we need to have that conversation. So I personally interned in Chicago and again, this was 30 years ago. But Chicago's expensive. It is, but I had an uncle who lived there. So I lived in his guest bedroom. And so I ask students to explore those kinds of things. You know, do you have, does your mom's college roommate live in Dallas and have a couch that you can sleep on, or um, you know, that sort of thing? And so, yes, New York, Dallas, Nashville is a real big location for our students because it's a big city, but it's not too terribly far. Right. Um, and we have a lot of students from the Tennessee area, um, Atlanta, Birmingham, a little closer to home. We might see students in Jackson, um, New Orleans, on the coast. So we do see students spread out all across the country. Um, of course, regionally, we're gonna see more clusters of students. Um, St. Jude and Memphis is a great location where our students enjoy interning. And then even here locally, our students intern with ESPN and SEC network. And so we're they're in Starkville, but they're interning with big places. And so it's really exciting that they have the opportunities to do that.

Shannon Harmon 14:29

And again, I love it that yeah, as you said to me, in many cases, they're asking us that's right because they know how well prepared our students are. That's right. And how they're going to come with knowledge and skills and uh a can-do attitude. I think that speaks volumes to the way we prepare students on this campus. Yes. Um, and then I think too, you know, our sending our students out on these internships so they can get diverse experiences and and live somewhere else far from home, um, but then want to come back to Mississippi and contribute that knowledge and skill set back to this community is very powerful. It is. Yeah. It is. And I think there's a lot of value in um students who get to do those and have those big grand experiences, but also those who go back to their hometown. Absolutely. Do an internship in their hometown because um, you know, Columbus just down the road from us has a major TV station. I'm from Tupelo. They have a TV station. That's right. You know, people can go and intern there and get just as much experience and and a wealth of skills as they can going to a New York.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

That's exactly right. And so, yeah, some students will come in and I say, Well, where would you like to intern? And and I I have had to think about how I ask that question because I don't want students to feel like they have to go somewhere and pay to live or know someone that lives in a big city. Because we absolutely see students doing great internships in their hometowns or here in Starkville. Right. And so the range of opportunities is really broad. Um, the locations are varied. And I try to encourage students that I meet with early in their college careers to think about if they could even do more than one internship and what that might look like. So, could you do one here in the fall or spring semester while you're in school? Would you have time for that? Would that work with your schedule? And then maybe a summer at home or a summer in a different city. Um, so you know, students can do large or small, they can do close or far, and sometimes they do both.

Shannon Harmon 16:23

Yeah, how awesome is that that we allow them those opportunities. Um, tell me, what do you see as the advantage for students who do an internship?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Well, I think the students go in with the probably somewhat obvious advantage of uh applying the skills that they're learning in the classroom in the workplace and extending their resumes and their networks. So those are probably the three things that students are motivated by and are absolutely very real benefits of doing an internship. Yes, you were applying your skills in a professional space, you are meeting new people that work in the field that you work in, and you are adding to your resume and and potentially getting references or recommendations from the people that you work with. Great benefits. But the benefits that students often don't expect are sometimes they learn what they don't like. Yes. Or they learn what they're good at and didn't know they were good at. Yes.

Shannon Harmon 17:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

They learn these cross-scutting cross-cutting skills or soft skills that some people might call them, um, like teamwork and leadership and critical thinking. And um, so they don't really go into it looking for that stuff. But when I have them reflect at the end of the semester and um do a video report to tell me what all they learned, those are the things that they're talking about. Wonderful. As much or more than the actual task-related skills. So I love that that that light bulbs go on that they're not expecting to go on. And again, sometimes the things that they didn't enjoy or the the elements of the internship that they thought they might liked, but they didn't, can be very beneficial because it can help them course correct. Yeah. If they're still, you know, taking classes, they may realize I need to take a different class to round out a skill set, or there may be something that I thought I wanted to do. I thought I wanted to do social media, and it turns out I don't really enjoy that like I thought I would. Or I thought I wanted to work remotely, but the remote work just wasn't for me. It didn't pan out the way I thought it would. Those are the things that I think are the benefits that they don't see going in that can be extremely beneficial. Yeah.

Shannon Harmon 18:39

I love that. I love how you said you're you're having them reflect because that's really where, you know, that thinking about our experience and and then talking about it. I love that you have them do a video reflection. How cool is that? Um, and that what they're talking about is not what they expected, you know. Um, and those skills then that they're talking about they learned can be transferable uh into different settings and different businesses, right? I think that's so important. What can we do as faculty to support that process? So and not just faculty on this campus, but faculty anywhere. What are the things that we can do to support students? And I and I'm really thinking about in any discipline to be their best selves in their internships.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

Um, I think there's a couple of different things, and and my answer may kind of take your question in two different directions. That's right. Um one thing that I think that we can do is just to introduce the idea of internships in our classrooms, talk about our own internships that we had, or use examples of internships as we're talking about the skills that we're teaching them. So, you know, this is an illustration of how this might work. Building our own networks that we can then refer our students to, staying in touch with alumni that are going to go on and hire our students as interns. So, you know, really just kind of being a point person for students and helping them to think about internships from the minute they set foot on our campus and talking about it in the classroom and in the hallway and when they come for advising. Um, and and so hearing that faculty are talking about this and encouraging it is going to prompt students to make it feel normal and not intimidating. Um, and so that's something that I would encourage anybody in any discipline to do. Um, another thing that I think we can do as classroom teachers that has been interesting is I have a lot of students that come in very nervous or afraid or thinking, I haven't done enough to get an internship. I don't have any experience, my resume is blank, I don't know if I'm ready. So I don't know if I have the skills that I need, what if I fail. Um, and so helping to teach the students how to find that path. Um, and so just like in a classroom assignment, we may scaffold an assignment, we kind of need to scaffold them into internships. And so that might start with helping them find things that they can do their freshman year or when they first come to campus to start developing their resumes a little bit. It's not an internship, but student organization involvement, um, community service opportunities, even helping them see that, hey, you did this assignment for my class, but it can go in a portfolio. This can be a writing sample. You may not have written for a job yet or for an internship yet, but the writing that you did for my classroom can still be a work sample if an employer is asking for that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

So I think, you know, helping them see that you're more ready than you realize and pointing them to opportunities that can help them get ready to apply for internships is something that all faculty and any discipline can be doing.

Shannon Harmon 21:48

I love that. I think that's huge. Yeah. We don't think about uh sometimes we're just focused on the content we're teaching, um, but this whole how they then can apply it setting is so in in a different setting, I think, is is really important. And the Things that we do and what we ask them to do in our classes can really help build that bridge to that real world. I think that's important. You know, you've done all this work, Amy, as the internship coordinator, but it's not like magic. You have like a protocol and a system and all of that in place. So we're talking to this, this audience. What advice would you give someone who maybe their discipline doesn't have an internship and they want to get this started formally in their department?

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Um, I was fortunate that somebody was doing this in our department before me. Um, so there was some groundwork laid that I was very fortunate to step into. But I have met with some people in other departments that were starting from scratch. And so I have helped them think through, you know, what is the first starting point to do this for our department and for our students. Um and the first thing I would say is to start building just a list of ideas so that you can say to your students, hey, here are some places that you might explore. Um, one thing that I don't do is I don't place our students into internships. Right. I don't pair them or match them because I think part of the learning experience is finding it. Um and, you know, they again, if if we just hand them an an internship, then they're getting the benefit of the work experience. But I think they need to get the experience of going out there and applying and researching and interviewing. And the first thing kind of at the start is just to say, where could our students intern what would align with the content that we teach? Because that's the first thing the students are going to ask is where can I apply? I don't know who to contact. And so to start just building a little bit of a list or a database for students, um, the second thing I would say is to lean into the career center.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Um, you know, you don't have to do all of it if you don't have a course release or a course behind you, um, that the the career center can do an awful lot to help facilitate this. And so I do think it's helpful to have a point person in an academic discipline that can point students toward the internships that that that discipline is well suited for. But the career center can do mock resume uh reviews or mock interviews and mock interviews and resume reviews. Uh and so doing those things through the career center, I do a lot of that with students. But um the the career center is there for that. I tell my students to do both, you know, let me look at your resume, let the career center look at your resume, and then a third person. Um, but if there's not somebody in the department that is either equipped to do that or um is able to serve as that resource, the career center can provide a lot of that. The career center can also help vet employers through their connections platform. Um, so they have a database that's that employers can add themselves to. And so um, that can be something that if you're starting out and you feel like, okay, we want to provide this for our students, but we don't really know where to go. Start by creating that list of what works well for your discipline and then use the career center to get started.

SPEAKER_01 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Um, and then you can grow it from there. Um, developing your own course so that students can get academic credit is something that needs to be housed in the department. Um the career center has uh a non-credited or non-additive credit course. Um, so the course can document that the student is doing an internship, but those credits don't count toward the student's degree. Um and so to really make the academic experience more beneficial to students, if a department wants to start doing this, that would be kind of be like probably the third step in the process is to go ahead and say, okay, we want to provide students with academic credit that's gonna show up on their transcript that's gonna count toward their degree. And so what does that class look like? Um, and then again, you don't have to start from scratch. I can give you my course proposal, or you know, you could there's ways that you can not have to reinvent the wheel on what that looks like, but there are a few different ways that a course can be set up. But I think having a way for students to document the experience and um to either require it as part of their degree or make it one of those encouraged electives is gonna incentivize it further and document it and legitimize it further.

Shannon Harmon 26:41

I I totally agree. I love that you're talking about the career center because none of us do this work in isolation. Oh no. We partner. Absolutely. We reach out, we work together. Um and so I think that's so important that um we say, you know, here's our partners across campus. And huge shout out to the career center. Absolutely. Um, and and that we're, you know, leaning on each other's expertise, I think is so important. One of the things too, uh you doing this work speaks volumes to me about how you feel about your own career, your own teaching, your own learning, um, and how you're giving that back and those experiences back for students. So I want to talk a little bit about that, if you don't mind. Okay. Um, we here at Mississippi State are really uh focusing on this teaching excellence. And you're doing a lot of work on the teams in your College of Arts and Sciences. Uh, I first met you through R Center and doing things with R Center. And um, you know, I think you're really engaged in this work. I guess my question is is how does what you do in internship uh inform your own teaching excellence? How are you continuing to work on your teaching excellence? Because we all are.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

Yes, yes. So if I was not attending programs through site and developing my teaching through different workshops and things like that, I would still be using VHS tapes and overhead projectors and I would probably be missing a lot. So um I think it's important that um we all continue to use the resources to develop ourselves as teachers. I think um, you know, most of us that come into higher ed have not been trained in pedagogy. I think the the higher ed world is getting better about that. And so I'm so grateful that Mississippi State University is investing in teaching excellence and training people to be good teachers because when I started here in 1999, that wasn't the case. I had great mentors, but they kind of just mentored me because they were great colleagues. Yeah. Um, there wasn't as much formal opportunity to develop and learn about what it means to be a good teacher. The as I started to learn about those opportunities and as those opportunities became more formalized across campus and through CTL and site, I have loved the opportunity to learn what it means to be a good teacher from a research-based perspective, you know, pedagogy, um, what is that and what does that look like and what does it mean and how do I get better at it? And that research evolves just like research in any field. Absolutely. So if I I did a teaching excellence training in uh 10 years ago, then I I would have missed some things if I didn't continue to learn more from the opportunities, the the workshops and trainings that are offered. So um again, huge shout out to to site to the and the the workshops and things because um I've learned a lot. I also have learned just from other faculty that I get to engage with at the programs that I attend. Um I learned from teachers who are older than me and younger than me and teachers from different disciplines. And I love that. I think that's really um, again, light bulbs go on sometimes that I wouldn't have known to look for if I didn't have the opportunity to meet other teachers from our cross campus.

Shannon Harmon 29:59

How is the work that you're doing in the College of Arts and Sciences with Y'all's Teams group? Tell us a little bit about that. What is that initiative? What does it look like? What are you guys doing?

SPEAKER_00 30:07

That has evolved a little bit too. So we've been doing this for a couple of years, and um, the I guess at its core, um, we are a team designed to support teaching excellence across the college. You know, if that were just to sort of summarize in one tagline. Well, and y'all are a big college. We are a big college, many different disciplines, many different departments and yeah, this is a wide range of disciplines and types of classes from small labs to large lecture classes and everything in between. And so there's a lot of different teaching challenges and um different teaching needs. And so the the way we've approached this has evolved a little bit over the last couple of years, but um we're trying to identify what the big challenges are and provide resources to support faculty through those challenges. Um, and so we have been developing content to deliver on the Arts and Sciences website with um lots of different tools on lots of different topics from what does it look like to teach in a large classroom? Um, how do I motivate my students? How do I manage attendance and you know, those kind of sometimes pain points or sometimes challenging pieces of teaching? And again, our our team in Teams is made up of people from different disciplines. And so that's been a really fun opportunity to work alongside this.

Shannon Harmon 31:30

It's all worked with us and through the center. So that's what's so great is y'all are doing this work sort of, I say, in tandem with what we're doing, right? Y'all are doing the stuff like arts and sciences specific. And then if there needs a depth of stuff, they can come to programming. But you guys, and kudos to you, new Maroon Academy graduate, like y'all have done these capstone courses and really taken time to invest in your own pedagogy. And so you've done that work, and so now you can give back to your peers. Um, and I think that's really, really nice because that's again comes back to that partnership. Yes. That we do here at Mississippi State. Yes. We're not saying, hey, teaching and learning is only what we do at site. Y'all can't do that. No, we're doing this in collaboration. We're walking alongside each other so that we can really change and enhance that culture of teaching excellence on this research one university campus, right? Yes. I think that's so key. Absolutely. Something you said to me in your office when we were chatting about this was about outcomes and how your internship work and your work in your intro classes, how all of this made you think about out and then your maroon academy work and how all this made you think about outcomes.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

You know, again, I've been teaching a long time. And when I started, I inherited a syllabus from somebody else and it had learning objectives on it. And so I just kind of rolled with that and didn't give it too much thought. Um, and it's through things like the Maroon Academy that I have been challenged and become a lot more in tune to the importance of learning outcomes and how those should guide what we're doing and how we structure our classes. Um, and again, it it sort of felt like a duh moment. Like, how did I not know to think about it from this standpoint? Because it is sort of an obvious thing, I think. But the Maroon Academy experience helped me to figure out how to articulate learning outcomes clearly and concisely so that they made sense to me. And then I was able to figure out is everything that I'm doing in my class leading to that? Yeah. And if not, then why am I doing it? Or do I need to add something else to make sure that my students are achieving this, you know, throughout my course?

Shannon Harmon 33:42

Yeah. And I think that's that applies to the internship as well. Absolutely. Yeah. It's like, are they getting out what we've intended? Exactly. Does this internship really align with what the intentions are? Yes. I think that's so key, Amy. I never like to end this podcast without giving some advice to faculty that are walking back into their classroom tomorrow or next semester. So if you could give a couple of pieces of advice to faculty, whether they want to start an internship or they're currently doing one, or they're just teaching classes that then lead to internships, what advice would you give faculty?

SPEAKER_00 34:16

Like I said, talk about internships. Use real world examples in your classes, incorporate case studies. You know, the more the student can see what the real world looks like inside the classroom, the more I think they will pursue an internship outside of the classroom. Because it does feel scary, you know, if if they feel like they've only ever learned this content in a textbook and they're not connecting the dots to what that looks like, and they can't have a vision for what that looks like, then that's going to feel like a real barrier to then going and pursuing an internship. So using things like real-world examples helps students to make that connection. And so then the internship actually exiting the classroom and entering a professional space doesn't feel quite as foreign. They've kind of envisioned what that might look like in between. And so I think that that's a real way to bridge that experience. Um, and then encouraging reflection. I think we mentioned that briefly, but I think that reflection in any course is valuable. But especially if your goal is to equip students to practice professionally through reflection, they can figure out where am I and what am I good at and what else do I need to learn? And again, sometimes this success didn't happen by accident, but what did I do along the way to achieve the outcomes that I got without a reflection component in our classes and in an internship? Then sometimes they miss that. They miss the realization of how did I get here? Yeah. And where do I want to go from here?

Shannon Harmon 36:00

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. That is so important and helpful. And I think uh not just asking students to reflect on what they're doing in class or how they bridge that to the real world. I think we as uh faculty can also do some reflection uh as well. I think that's very powerful in working on our own craft, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Yes, absolutely.

Shannon Harmon 36:21

Yeah. As we wrap up today's episode, I'm reminded that some of the most meaningful learning happens when students are asked to apply what they know in new and unfamiliar contexts, whether it's New York City or in our backyards or T Play, Mississippi. Uh, internships are one of the ways that learning can come alive for students. They're shaped by how we teach, how we prepare students, and how we help them reflect on their experiences. Excellence isn't confined to the classroom. It extends into how we prepare students for the experiences that shape their futures. At the Center for Innovation Teaching Excellence, we believe that preparing students for meaningful learning includes helping them make connections between theory and practice, between classroom and career, and between who they are now and who they're becoming. As you reflect on today's conversation, I invite you to consider this question: how might you help students better connect what they're learning in your course to the work they hope to do beyond it? Thank you for joining us for insightful teaching. If today's episode resonated with you, please share it with a colleague. Until next time, keep teaching with an insightful purpose, keep innovating with an insightful heart, and keep being the reason someone believes they belong here.