Hot Topics in Higher Education with Andrew Mercer, Melissa Moore, and Karyn Brown

Higher education is changing rapidly—and faculty are at the center of it all.

From the rise of artificial intelligence and evolving approaches to assessment, to student engagement, faculty well-being, and preparing graduates for an increasingly complex workforce, today's educators are navigating opportunities and challenges unlike any before.

In this special episode of InCITEful Teaching, host Dr. Shannon Harmon is joined by a panel of Mississippi State University faculty for a conversation about the issues shaping higher education today. Together, they offer thoughtful perspectives, practical advice, and honest reflections on what these trends mean for teaching, learning, and the future of our classrooms.

Whether you're looking for fresh ideas, reassurance that you're not alone, or simply enjoy hearing how fellow educators are thinking through today's challenges, this episode is packed with timely insights and engaging conversation.

Transcript

Shannon Harmon 0:04

Welcome to Insightful Teaching, the podcast from the Center for Innovation and Teaching Excellence at Mississippi State University. I'm your host, Dr. Shannon Harmon. Throughout this season, we've explored topics ranging from relational teaching and active learning to faculty well-being, internships, and innovation in the classroom. Along the way, one thing has become clear: higher ed is rapidly changing. Faculty are navigating new technologies, evolving student expectations, shifting workforce demands, questions about student engagement, and conversations about what teaching and learning should look like in the future. Today's episode is centered around bringing a few colleagues from across Mississippi State and previous episodes back together to talk about just that. What should teaching and learning look like for the future? And what hot topics are currently shaping higher ed. So I'm so excited to have joining me today Dr. Andrew Mercer, Dr. Melissa Moore, and Karen Brown. Thank you all three for being here and coming back for this special hot topics episode. But before we jump in, let's just start with a simple question. From each of you, just one word that you would use to describe higher education right now. I would say evolving.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

And I think I would say changing.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Melissa stole my word, so I'll say improving.

Shannon Harmon 1:34

Evolving and changing, um, improving. I think those are those are keys to uh uh things that are happening right now and really align nicely with this first topic I'd like to cover. Uh, because I think people might say those same words when we talk about AI and artificial intelligence. Um, so let's start there. It feels like a lot of the conversations around AI have shifted in a small amount of time. The first thing we all talked about in higher ed was cheating and and how are we going to prevent this AI from taking over? But recently, the Chronicle published an article um talking all about um how AI is reshaping teaching and learning and assessment and no longer about keeping it out of the classroom, um, but how do we work with AI? So I guess my question for you all is what are the things we need to be thinking about that we should be paying more attention to with AI? And then what worries or concerns should we still have about AI?

SPEAKER_02 2:37

I think I want to start with, and I know this may not be the majority, but not being afraid of it, it's here. It's not going anywhere. And so I feel like as faculty, the best thing we could do is not be afraid of it and learn how to incorporate it ethically.

SPEAKER_03 2:54

I I would echo that, and I would also say that AI is in a lot of ways like other technological revolutions that we've even experienced in our lifetimes, like the advent of the internet is a big one, um, and how education in general, but certainly higher ed, changed dramatically as the internet became more um prevalent, and now it's pretty much integrated into everything we do in higher ed. And I just kind of picture AI is going to be the next evolution of that, and that 10 years from now we'll look back and say, well, obviously we've been using AI now forever and we know how to use it and are really good at it. But like Karen said, we can't be afraid to engage with it. We have to be willing to step out and learn about it and not try to push back against it because it is here and I don't think it's going anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

And I would agree with both of what you all said. And and I really, you know, want to emphasize that I really see it as a partner, and it's really adding so much more to the conversation that it's an opportunity for students to even do more, for all to be able to do more, and not see it as something that's trying to take away from our ability to do stuff. So so I see it as an encouraging tool that opens up doors and opportunity to just learn more, read more, do more, be more, um, and and feel capable and accomplished.

Shannon Harmon 4:20

With you, particularly in mind, Melissa, you teach large lecture courses. You know, you have 450 students in your class. So, in what ways has that thinking changed the way you either taught this last year or going into next semester? What are some specific things you're thinking about?

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Yeah, it really is an exciting time, and I see it that way as an opportunity to innovate. Because we, as educators, are constantly learning and wishing to improve and find ways to improve. And this is another tool that has, I think, really broadened my ability to think about that classroom environment in such a new and exciting way, uh, to be respectful of people's preferences with AI, but the recognition, as Karen had mentioned, it is here and it is being utilized and giving our students the tools and the ability to embrace it, um, to help them be those lifelong learners. And ultimately, our goal here is to help them through their academic journey. So whether it's uh them being able to quickly come up with a test all on their own before they're actually taking the test in the class, that's phenomenal. And you know, that was really, I think, difficult for a student to do prior. And now they can create multiple tests and multiple questions and multiple styles and have more opportunity to engage with the material and feel even more fully prepared for whether it's the class topic and lecture that day or whether it's the actual maybe test-taking environment. So I'm excited about it and I'm really excited to see what my class is gonna be like this fall because after 25 years of teaching and evolving, it's almost like I'm in a new like stratosphere.

Shannon Harmon 5:58

Like you said, it's almost rejuvenating, like we have a new thing now. I'm not just gonna teach my large lecture the way I always have. This gives me a reason to do some things differently. I saw something the other day about 70% of students are worried that the college degree is going to be meaningless now. So, what are your thoughts about how should higher education respond to this tension between institutions investing heavily on AI and workforce prep, but then also diminishing maybe what the what the four-year degree means?

SPEAKER_02 6:32

I I just got out of an orientation session where we talked to parents about that return on investment. And as much as I would love this because we're educators, there is so much more to a college degree than your classes. And so it's a well-rounded development of a human being. And so I think that is the true and has been and will be the return on investment on a college degree. I also think no matter what direction AI goes, we're never going to lose the importance of human touch. I couldn't agree more. And human thinking.

Shannon Harmon 7:06

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think that's what's so great about the way we've approached it at Mississippi State, um, is that it's really about this human advantage, right? So it's this, as you said, Melissa, a partner that's gonna think alongside us in classrooms, but we're still going to be there. The faculty member in the classroom is still gonna be needed. The student experience is so important.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

I I would echo that. And also I just feel like that at least in a lot of the STEM fields, the AI is never gonna be able to replace an innovator, a scientist, or whatever person it might be that needs to come up with the ideas. Um, an AI could maybe help take an idea from just a an a simple idea to fruition, but AIs have to be prompted and they have to be guided and they have to have subject matter expertise before you can actually use them appropriately. And so this is where the educational piece is so important because the students have to know the material before they can engage the AI and use it effectively. Um, since I I work in weather, one of the things that I've been asked several times is, well, what's going to happen if AI can come and replace my job as a meteorologist? And I said, well, one, it would never be able to do that because a computer can't make a forecast in the way that a human can make a forecast. And more importantly, it can't issue life-changing, life-altering, instantaneous decisions like we have to be able to do. Like we have to issue tornado warnings and things like that. You can't do that with a computer because the computer's gonna make mistakes and there's gonna be human, major human impact involved. And you have you have to understand the responsibility that you take on whenever you gain this level of knowledge at the collegiate level and use that to give yourself credibility, but also to continue to advance the knowledge and the science forward. And so if you if you just go into college and you don't actually learn anything and just use an AI for everything, you're not gonna be very good as whatever the thing is that you're working towards. Um, so an AI has to be treated as nothing more than a tool, certainly not a um replacement for you. I don't ever envision a scenario where that would be the case.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

And and I would like to add to this in terms of thinking about that percentage, that 70%, and going back to that original question that you asked: how are we defining higher education? We really are evolving because we've got to be able to tackle this, that we've got to reduce that percentage, and we've got to truly escalate what it is that we're doing and the value that we're providing, and the perception and reality of that in the minds of our of our constituents. So we're really in this tech plus touch era, is what I think. And that we've got that technology, but that human aspect and that touch. And I think Mississippi State University was so ahead of their game, as we know, by incorporating the QEP, the quality enhancement plan, all focused on experiences, experiences in the classroom, outside of the classroom, this broad spectrum and this experiential learning is what really is making all the difference of how AI can help improve upon the learning journey for our students, you know, as as they continue on in Mississippi State and after.

Shannon Harmon 10:31

Yeah, I couldn't agree more, Melissa. Thank you for bringing that up because I think that's what's so important. You know, I often uh talk with faculty on this podcast and other spaces through the center, and I often hear them say, I think I have a student engagement problem. My students don't want to engage. And so what you just talked about is the way for us to get students uh engaged in different ways, and particularly with um extracurricular or experiential learning or um internships, on-the-job training, all of that uh research really points to the more involved that students are, the more they feel like they belong and then they are engaging. I'm wondering from your perspectives and working with students, do you feel like we currently have a student um engagement problem or a belonging problem or something else?

SPEAKER_02 11:19

I'd say 100%. Um I see it just um my son's gonna be a freshman and you know, coming out of high school, and I just see the lack of even being able to um talk to friends. They just do everything on their phone and in the privacy of one room. And I really think that is probably one of the most, you know, we say AI is one of the biggest challenges of academia, and it is, but I think it's the connectivity. I think it's getting them to connect on a personal level beyond their phones. It's it's really a problem.

Shannon Harmon 11:58

Right, which is why we're saying, you know, like the AI, there still has to be this human touch thing. It it can be our brainstorming thought partner, but as far as like human-to-human interaction, so that students feel like they are engaged and involved. And human-to-human engagement is also student and faculty, right? Not just peer-to-peer. But then how are we having those conversations um with students and keeping them engaged? Yeah, I think that's important.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Shannon, I I would say too, like Melissa and Andrew are both experts at this and do such a great job. I think the key is faculty connecting with their students. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

And I would add on to that, um, you know, students they really want us to help them if they haven't been able to do it yet, like connect those dots to understand why. Why are they doing this? What what is the purpose? Um, how is it going to help them, again, with their own kind of personal journey, which we're assuming in many cases is to graduate and go on either to have a career or pursue additional education. And the more that we can make it clear to them what that value is through real experiences and showcasing their work with, you know, whether it's a business client or with an internship, um, I think that really provides clarity for the student and and then gets them engaged in their like their own terms. So that it's, I don't know, I don't know. It's it's it's just um a way to get them excited about what it is that they're doing and applying it without them necessarily realizing they're engaging in these more traditional ways where like, hey, you got to go up and say hi to somebody. Yeah. If that makes sense.

Shannon Harmon 13:44

No, I actually it's like kind of coming together of what we've been talking about in my head, in that our classrooms uh have maybe traditionally been, you're gonna receive this content, you're gonna give this information. Now it's about how do we engage with the content and the knowledge and get the skills. And then how do we also link that to what we're gonna do in the real world, right? Or on the job or in an internship, like that real world connection, because that then gives students the why. I know, Andrew, you do that because you guys use AI to work alongside your training your meteorologist. So I'm particularly interested in your perspective about that.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

Well, one thing I wanted to add to that was actually going back to your last question where you mentioned the 70% problem, because um, if if you can train yourself using an AI to do to be an expert in something, you still are not getting the human connection, the engagement part of it. And that's something that this younger generation has already got a lack of is interpersonal connection. And so that's something that the university can offer that an AI cannot offer. Like you, you're gonna be in classes with students doing the things that you're doing. You're gonna engage with your professors face to face instead of behind a keyboard. Um, and so you're gonna get an opportunity to actually hear from them talking about the thing that you're interested in. I'm lucky, I guess, in the area I work in because if people want to go into what I do, they have been wanting to do that pretty much their entire life. Most of them have grown up wanting to do weather since they were three or four years old. And so there's always an it's fairly easy to engage our students because I just have to talk about weather and they're always excited.

Shannon Harmon 15:29

And so Don't we wish that was for every discipline?

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Not uh not all disciplines have that benefit, unfortunately, but I know that that I do. Um, all that to say, um, you still have to meet them where they are and try to find the things that they're interested in. And I I engaged, I'm kind of a nerdy guy if you haven't met me or been in my office before, it's pretty geeked out. Um, and my students love to come in and visit and talk about goofy stuff as well as talk about weather stuff, and it just helps to kind of break down the walls between the professor and the student to make it a little bit easier for them to engage. And right now I feel like those kinds of things are even more important than they've been because there has been such a disconnect between just the online world and the real world. And I think that's something that we're gonna continue to have to work hard to overcome. And AI is probably gonna make that problem worse, not better. So we're gonna have to be more intentional about breaking down that wall and engaging the students more effectively.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

And I think, Andrew, you did that when you had your lightsaber fight in your classroom.

SPEAKER_03 16:37

I did, yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:38

That that almost went viral.

Shannon Harmon 16:42

I think that's great, though. What you're saying, Andrew, is really what uh Karen and I talked about on our very first podcast, Insightful Teaching Podcast, which is relational teaching and building rapport with your students that only we can do as faculty, not AI, not the generative AI, not Claude, not any of that. That's not a true relationship. That's not true relational teaching. Yes, I can go to Claude and find some answers or get that answer to a problem. Um, but I can't build this rapport with someone who is teaching me. And that's different. That's what makes us uniquely human, and that's what makes these spaces a four-year university, two-year community college, that's what makes them unique. And I and I think that's just not going to go away, that there's always gonna be a need. I may be being too much of a positive Pollyanna about that, but I really hope that that's always gonna be needed and not just needed, but wanted for students.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

I'd I'd like to add one other thing too. I I feel like that our role as teachers is one where we're not necessarily just imparting knowledge because textbooks and AI can probably do that, but we're giving life to the content. We're explaining it, but in a way that it actually helps the students have to interact and work with the material instead of just reading it out of a book. And that level of connection, you're not gonna be able to foster with an AI. You have to have an interpersonal connection, and that's why the engagement is so important.

Shannon Harmon 18:13

I couldn't agree more, Andrew. I think that's great. We know that our colleagues probably are gonna say that as well if as they're listening to this podcast, but then they might say, Yes, but how do I then assess that? How do I gauge what they know and are able to do? What does that then look like?

SPEAKER_01 18:32

So you're asking, how are we gonna know if they know something? And to me, I feel like it has a lot to do with when a student sees some kind of a connection with the material. Like I love when I'm talking about something in class, and then the student will bring up, well, I was in the store and I noticed this, or I'll never be able to look at an advertisement the same way. And now how to capture those moments outside of that type of interaction, I'm not sure, but but to me, that's where I really know that they're not just memorizing something, they've they've applied it and they've seen it in their spaces and and more opportunities to get that, um, whether it's coming through reflections that they provide or students talking to other students in the classroom setting. But it's really finding that that material elsewhere. And we've just kind of teed it up in the classroom.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

I'd like to follow up. And Melissa, you hit the word that I love, and that's application. I love application assessment. Um, because in the real world, they're not going to have that particular scenario. And I want to say you've learned about A, B, and C, but what happens when DEF happens? And so being able to apply that. And something else, too, that I think is really important as a teacher is uh your methods have to be fluid. Like every second life is changing. And so I just really get frustrated when people think I can just keep doing what I've been doing and it's gonna work. Your audience is 100% different than mine. Is I started teaching 33 years ago. My audience is completely different. And one other thing that I looked up when you when you were talking about this question, Shannon, I wasn't aware of this, but this AI assessment scale by Perkins, FERS, is it Roe and McVaugh? Yes. I found that really interesting where you would have a scale where some assignments you build so that there can be no I AI and then all the way to the furthest exploration of AI. So I think incorporating it all different levels keeps it fluid and current.

Shannon Harmon 20:52

Yeah, I think that's important. You said that we we've actually looked at that AI scale and some of the trainings we've had with faculty on campus via site, via our center, um, and aligning that with the syllabus language that we've put out through the university, that red light, green light, um yellow light usage of AI in your classrooms. And so then aligning um our assessment methods with that, I do think is very important. Um, and so we have that guidance here at Mississippi State, I think um has been really helpful for faculty sort of navigating um what this looks like. But to come back to what you said, Melissa, this is gonna change the way that assessment might look like. And so we might need to be thinking about authentic assessments. Um, how are we assessing that applied knowledge? You get to see that, Andrea, when you get to see your students perform, right? So that's really performance based assessment. You get to see that come together, that theory then into practice. Um, is there anything you want to add about um the ways that we might think about assessing our students in the future?

SPEAKER_03 21:51

Well, I'll I'll certainly echo what both Karen and Melissa said. I I didn't use the word application, I used the words critical thought. But I do think that those align very heavily with each other. Um, if you can't assess us a problem critically to the point where you can't address some new application, then you don't really know the material. You've memorized the material, but you don't really know it. And so I always tell my students right before every test, the one thing you should not do if you want to do well on my test is go home and memorize everything I said in class because you're not gonna do well. It's not just about your ability to regurgitate facts to me for based on what I talked about for the last month. It's about your ability to take what I taught you and actually apply it to some sort of a scenario. And again, in my case, because we have so many different weather scenarios, it's pretty easy to come up with a scenario that's gonna force them to really dig into the depths of what they learned in that portion of the content to be able to demonstrate their knowledge. But I always like what Melissa said, I enjoy at the end of class, I've talked about some complicated topic that I feel like I don't think any of them got it. And then two of them come up to me after class and say, Well, doesn't this relate to this and this and this? And I'm like, Yes, actually it does. You you're getting it, you're seeing the deeper links between everything instead of just listening, listening to me talk for an hour. So those kinds of things I think are evidence in favor of they're getting it. Um now, in terms of assessment, I did want to, I guess I'm kind of old school because I still do all my assessments on paper. And that helped me back in May, whenever we had the canvas outage and everyone was panicking about final exams. Well, my final exams were on paper, so it wasn't a big deal for me. Um, but it doing things on paper and forcing them to actually sit in the classroom and write about a topic without any you tools at all other than just what they've learned, I still think that's a relevant way to do assessment in an examination type format that's pretty much AI proof as long as you're limiting their ability to engage with it in the classroom during the exam period. So I I sometimes the old ways work okay for this sort of thing.

Shannon Harmon 24:06

Yeah, and I think there's a space for that. I think we can absolutely still honor um all of the different ways that we can think about, as Karen said, on that scale. Do we want full usage? You can do complete this assessment with any tool you want, or do we want to say, no, now it's it's not prohibited, and I want to see what you really know and can do and what that looks like for us. I think as faculty, we have the power to say that in our classrooms and we just need to communicate that with students about what the expectation is, what we're assessing, what we want them to know and be able to do, and and making it clear about how then we're going to assess them.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

With that assessment, I like what you said and thinking about that range. It's also really important if we're setting that expectation and make sure it really is fair and a real, understandable expectation that we can follow through. So, for example, with 450 students, and if I make a claim about no AI, it might be very difficult for me to actually enforce that. And so we can fall into that unfortunate situation where several students are using it, doing very well, maybe because it was structured incorrectly, and then some that are following the rules and don't do well. And that just sets up a bad situation of, you know, um unfair. So, you know, if we've got those rules in place, there is a responsibility in us as faculty to make sure that we can enforce those and that there's as much fare and equity, you know, throughout that classroom environment.

Shannon Harmon 25:28

I understand. I think that's what we're all kind of grappling with right now as faculty thinking through this, right? It's no longer, you know, um, it's it's these bigger questions that we're now thinking about. How do we make uh this technology equitable? How do we think about all students? Um, I agree. I think that's a lot of conversation that's going on now, um, just nationally out there. Yeah. And then I I also hear something, an underlying theme here. That's a lot to think about as faculty members. You know, Melissa, you're approaching it as, wow, this is gonna like give me some new life going into this next semester. But our peers, our colleagues might be thinking, oh my gosh, just one more thing I have to think about. Not only do I have to prepare for my class next semester, I have to also think about my research. I have to also think about my service, I have to do these things. So in your you, the three of you guys have a lot of experience at teaching. How have you taken care of yourselves over the evolution of your own teaching, your own careers? Because AI is not the first thing that's happened to us, you know. We've also all been through the pandemic, we've also all been through computers. Not that we're a thousand years old, right? But we've all been around for a while. So how have you protected and taken care of yourselves over the evolution of your careers?

SPEAKER_02 26:41

I give myself a lot of grace. What does that mean, Karen? What does that look like for you? Yeah. Well, as a teacher, I think we're put on this pedestal that we know everything and giving myself grace that I'm gonna make mistakes. And I remember telling some new faculty members, I have yet to have a semester why don't do something different with my syllabus, or I add something, or I take it away, just constant modification. But really meeting students where they are that semester and giving grace when it doesn't work out, and then evaluating that and going back to the drawing board. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 27:23

I would say for me, it's um definitely a component of giving yourself grace. But I also try to find ways, if at all possible, to limit my engagement outside of certain time periods, like maybe it's eight to five Monday through Friday. Sometimes it can't be because of looming deadlines. But if I have I have a lot of challenges in my home life um going on from time to time, and so I try to make sure that the home life and the work life are able to be balanced in an effective way that I don't get burned out on one or the other. Um, and that's it's a hard thing to navigate, and the best way you can do it is just by turning turning off your phone or whatever, walk away from what walk away from the university responsibilities for a little while to give yourself a brain reset so that you can engage in it more effectively whenever it's time to start back up. If you don't do that, you can easily get burned out and overwhelmed and it it can go badly. So that I think is very important. And that's important not just for a full professor, but also for an assistant professor who feels the pressure of tenure looming and all these things. I have to get this work, I have to do all these things. That's how I felt as an assistant professor. I was constantly plugged into the email and the phone and stuff all the time, got burned out, it was hard. And now that I look back, I think, well, why did I go through all of that? It didn't probably change the outcome one way or another. So I put myself through a lot of undue heartache. And so it's helpful for both junior and senior faculty to realize the importance of having that balance of um work and home life.

Shannon Harmon 29:00

Yeah, I agree. I think I fell the victim to that as well, just giving everything away to promotion tenure at the detriment of my own personal life. So I would I agree. I think we need to think about that at all uh levels of our career.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

I guess my perspective has has really always been you just do. You just, you just do it. Uh dare I use a Nike just do it. But you know, you just, you just do. And quite honestly, if you think too much about it, then you might not do it. So I I mean, I guess I've always just been in that moat, you just do, you just do, you just do, and there's no problem that you can't solve and just move forward and and and tackle whatever the issue is. You know, and like you said, I I I'm currently, you know, a department head and was when COVID hit. And, you know, it's our responsibility to navigate this and again help our students on their academic journey and then be thinking about how to support, you know, faculty and staff. And and it's all about, you know, doing and enhancing and helping others. And and and maybe that just gives me peace, you know, in in my own mind that I'm focused on those those types of things. Um, and obviously there's outlets, whether it's getting some exercise or spending time with family. Um, but you know, when when there's a knock on the door or an email comes or a student comes to your office, if it's important to them, it's gotta be important to me. And you just do.

Shannon Harmon 30:22

Yeah, I think that's great that you said that, you know, um as a mom of four, Melissa, and we know you have four kiddos and five. Okay, five, sorry. Five kiddos. Um, you you know what it's like to juggle that family life while also working on promotion and tenure, while also helping students, while also doing those things. And and I like that you said that, you know, just we just do it because we're so resilient as humans. I think that's the other thing that I think that kind of makes me think about the AI conversation we already had, you know. But we have this resiliency that that really defines who we are as humans. And and I don't think anyone in higher ed is in higher ed if they do not have some level of perseverance and resiliency. Uh just to get through, you know, all the work that we do and all the things. I think that speaks volumes about who we are as a group. I'd like for us to think a a little bit about the future of higher ed. What do you think uh a couple of misconceptions are out there right now about higher education and what can we do about it?

SPEAKER_03 31:20

I'll say for me on this question, I I thought a lot about what I hear kind of in the media about higher ed right now is because we do feel like and to some extent that there's a lot of scrutiny being placed on higher ed at the moment. A lot of that revolves around, oh, well, professors, they don't really teach. They have their TAs teach for them, and they just kind of sit around and don't do a whole lot. And for me personally, I feel like that that's a massive misconception. I know right now as a full professor, I work harder than I've ever worked as an assistant or associate professor, juggling not only all my teaching responsibilities, but all my research, which since my research is AI and weather adjacent, is really blown up in the last two or three years. And then on top of that, all my service obligations, which just get higher and higher the higher your rank is in the faculty. And so, if anything, I think most full professors probably feel under attack and underappreciated for the amount of workload that they carry for the depart their departments in the university. And I think that a lot of that is being fed by public misperception of what faculty are and what faculty do. And I think it's important for us to continue to advocate for ourselves that we are working really hard and doing everything we can to be the best at whatever it is that we're trying to do.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

I would uh echo that and and completely agree. And and clearly right now the spotlight is heavily focused on higher ed, but that pendulum's gonna swing. And um, and so going back to what Shannon said and the resilience, and and you know, and that's important, and and maybe just again, we we just got to keep keep doing providing value, helping, you know, again, move the students along their goals and paths. And if we stay true to that, then you know the attention will will shift. But um, it's an exciting time, and it is a time that is requiring all of us to think carefully and deeply about you know, assessment and learning and value. And and you know, with competition comes more opportunity to improve. And and so, you know, I think many of us have been, but if there have been some that haven't, we we definitely certainly are are now um to ensure that we are providing that necessary value and and ultimately then changing that percentage of 70% not seeing value to 90% seeing value.

Shannon Harmon 33:49

Right. Right. Yeah, absolutely. I think you're right. I think that's a great way to think about it is like we have to continue to to hold on to what the core mission of this four-year university higher ed is. And and maybe we've this pendulum has swung too far and we we need we know that it will come back at some point.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

Yeah, I think for me, and I know Melissa and Andrew and I go way back. And so when I think about when I became, you know, a part of academia, teaching was not important being a good teacher wasn't as important for a lot of faculty members. And I what I love in academia now is talk about that pendulum. It has swung where teaching is important. And I love that, and that really excites me about the future of academia. And I think that in turn is going to really help elevate the importance of a college degree. It's not gonna be like Andrew said, where they think we just, you know, sit in our offices and read books and don't do anything. Um, we're impacting the world and we're showing that, and we're taking that impact and teaching it to our students. So I think that's gonna be really important.

Shannon Harmon 35:01

Yeah, I couldn't agree more, especially as a Center for Innovation and Teaching Excellence. I mean, that's what we want to do, right? We want to help people um really think about uh their that craft of teaching and and how we can all work on it together because it is something that uh while I've been teaching uh for 24 years, I mean, I still work on that my craft of teaching all the time and and constantly talking about it uh because the context of students, the context of the learners is is evolving, and so we evolve as well. So I'm glad you brought that up, Karen. That's important. Um I also agree that right now teaching excellence is is as a at a research one land grant university, we're still we're thinking about it. It's on the radar. And I and I think that's really exciting, particularly right now in the time of AI.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Did you use the radar example because we have Andrew in the room? Just kidding.

Shannon Harmon 35:50

No, but that was nice.

SPEAKER_02 35:51

I love a good pun.

Shannon Harmon 35:53

No, but that was nice. Okay, let's do a lightning round. These are just short. I'd love to hear from everyone. What's one book every educator should read?

SPEAKER_02 36:02

It this may seem strange, but it's called QBQ, the question behind the question, personal accountability. What I love about this book, and I used to have my students read it, I read it, I tell everybody to read it because we too often are victims and we too often think, well, we can't do that because of that, or I'm not doing this because of what this person did. Own your own behavior. And so that's what I love about this book is what can I do in this situation to make a difference?

Shannon Harmon 36:31

Awesome.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

I was just thinking this might be a cop-out answer, but I personally don't think you should read a single book on teaching methodology. I think instead you should find one that is in your specific field that helps you connect to and communicate the human experience to the group of people that you're working to teach.

SPEAKER_01 36:52

Yep. So this might be going a little bit risky, um, but I'm going with a book. It's called uh The Six Types of Working Genius. And so it's really a great book to better like understand your own gifts, your own frustrations, like what it is that you love to do, what is it that you are good at, and what frustrates you. And and it actually like there's like six different areas wonder and invention, discernment, et cetera. And and it the book tells you about that. Now it will also provide like a test, but you've got to pay for that. But it's a really neat way if you're working in a group or in a team, or if you've got case competitions and student groups. And I think it really provides an energizing way to understand yourself and then the competencies that you need to make that team successful. So it's it's kind of a cool read.

Shannon Harmon 37:39

Yeah. All of y'all's answers kind of reflect back on again this human component and who are we, right? What who are we that we bring to this um classroom or to our research problem or to our teaching? Who are we? Um, I think that's great. Okay. What's one teaching tool that you cannot live without?

SPEAKER_02 37:56

I'm gonna say office hours, because to me that's where so much of the real teaching happens, where you really can apply and get to know students and connectivity. So I just love office hours.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

For me, and my students will echo this, it's my marker board, drawing pictures, writing things, explaining things. Everything I do teaching involves that marker board in some way. And they, for better or worse, they know I am well known for that.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

I don't know. This is really a tough one. And and and I'm not trying to beat to death the whole human engagement, but boy, do I love the in-person interaction, talking to the students before class, after class, and my doors always open. And and just having that opportunity to in to engage one-on-one or in small groups is huge. I just love it.

Shannon Harmon 38:50

Yeah, I agree. Y'all are all talking about students, whether it's having like the marker board, like it's all this student element. Again, I we're not beating the dead horse, uh, Melissa. I think we're actually really emphasizing what's most important right now, right? I too would say, Andrew, something similar to what you said. I love a good uh post-it poster paper, uh, a web, you know, a carousel with groups, walking through and looking at race posters. I think there's just nothing better in my mind. And we can do that on online spaces as well. Um, but that that human connection and interaction and doing things together uh is really key. All right. What's one thing you're trying in your teaching next semester or just in general? What's something you're you're trying out next semester?

SPEAKER_02 39:32

I'm going to try the AI scale.

Shannon Harmon 39:34

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

And and within that scale, I really want to incorporate ethical use of AI. I think that's where we can really shine as teachers is taking them through what are the ethical uses of AI.

SPEAKER_03 39:48

I'm gonna try to do something different with my statistics course, where in the past I've just kind of let them have this take-home exam where they could just write code and write answers and everything all at one time. And instead, now I'm gonna develop it as a two-step process where first they can use whatever tools, including AI if they so choose, to develop the code and the answers to the numeric parts of their questions. And then they're gonna have to sit down with all of that material and actually answer written content explainable questions where they have to actually think critically about all this work that they've done in a timed manner so that they can't have time to really let the AI do that work for them. So it's gonna force them to kind of work more like a data engineer where they have to let the computer help drive the code, but then they have to understand conceptually what it is that they've done and explain it back to me.

Shannon Harmon 40:45

Wow, you'll have to come back on and tell me how that goes. Uh tell our listeners.

SPEAKER_03 40:49

I'm a little nervous about it.

Shannon Harmon 40:51

That's a big one, but it sounds really interesting, Andrew. I'm serious. We'd love to hear a follow-up about that next, maybe in the spring semester of insightful teaching. Uh Melissa, what's one thing you're trying?

SPEAKER_01 41:01

Well, this is gonna be a biggie, and I'm not quite sure exactly how it's gonna go, but I want to do like a three in one. And so I'm gonna be taking the class, and there's gonna be like one third, one third, one third. And each of those thirds throughout the semester, so four weeks or what, five weeks, five weeks, five weeks, they're gonna be different and structured different. So, like I'm almost envisioning the first part on a large lecture. Let's get all the basic terminology and then the second pod, you know, it's gonna be very group-oriented, task-oriented. And then the third part is gonna be like speakers and panels, and students are gonna be involved with it. At the end of the day, this is what I want is that students are gonna leave saying, that was fun, that was productive, I can't wait to see what we're doing next.

Shannon Harmon 41:44

I love it. I love it, Melissa. It sounds like you may have been influenced by some different things. We've talked a lot about this and about your class, and um I'd love to also hear how that goes. Again, uh, as someone who talked about teaching large lecture on this podcast, I'd love to hear uh a follow-up episode with you. I think our listeners would too, about how you how you changed up this large lecture. Um, that's very exciting, you guys. How awesome is it that our faculty are doing these things for our students? So kudos to all of you. I can't leave this episode without two things. One, I'd love for you to just give a one word. That's gonna be hard for you guys because you're talkers. One word to describe effective teaching. And then what piece of advice would you give um someone walking into their class tomorrow? So, what's one word you would use to describe effective teaching?

SPEAKER_02 42:35

I would say care.

Shannon Harmon 42:38

And a piece of advice to give it away.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

I think for the piece of advice talk to your students.

SPEAKER_03 42:46

I I like the word vivify. And I think it's important to not just convey material, but to engage and like make the material exciting for the students and let your excitement come through to the students about whatever the topic is that you're teaching. I that goes a long way to help facilitate effective teaching, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

I think one word that describes great teaching is open. And I think there's a lot of different ways that you can define what open is, right? It's it's accessible, it's an opportunity, it's a way to walk into something. Um it's just open and available and accessible and and doable. And what I really hope for that, that new faculty member or anybody, you know, walking into that classroom, I mean, have fun. If you're not having fun, this the students aren't gonna have fun. It's gotta be productive, but have fun with that opportunity to educate others and to learn from them and and again to to help them be successful. That's what we're all seeking.

Shannon Harmon 43:54

Absolutely. Uh, and that's a great way to end this conversation today is is to think about this idea of uh, you know, what are we doing here if we're not doing it? Uh, if we're not enjoying it, then our students are not gonna enjoy it. Um, and and maybe we should should have some reflective time to think about what we can do to make this a meaningful experience and to change that 70%, right? Uh we are still helping students learn and grow and prepare for meaningful futures. Uh while the context of our learners may change and the tools that we use may evolve, curiosity, connection, critical thinking, all the things we've talked about today still are keys to student success and continue to guide us and to be that compass for us as educators. Today's discussion reminds us that some of the most important conversations in higher education don't happen because we have all the same answers. They happen because we're willing to ask thoughtful questions and talk about them together. At the Center for Innovation and Teaching Excellence, we believe that innovation begins with conversations like the ones we've had today. As you reflect on today's episode, consider this question: What is one challenge or opportunity in higher education that you are paying attention to right now? Thank you for joining us on Insightful Teaching. If today's episode resonated with you, please share it with a colleague. Until next time, keep teaching with insightful purpose, keep innovating with an insightful heart, and keep being the reason someone believes they belong here.